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Oh I Think They Like Me…
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Recent Adventures
- Hedo Turkoglu and four other players who need to step up.
- Kevin Love talks about Greece. And his beard. But mainly his beard.
- Greece and the pathetic art of tanking. (Update: and France too.)
- ELATV: Lithuania still rolling.
- Live IstanBLOG: Brazil and Slovenia think second is the best.
- Live IstanBLOG: USA vs. Iran has plenty of non-nuclear storylines.
- USA and Iran are shooting jumpers, not launching missiles.
- Live IstanBLOG: Can Brazil slow Team USA’s attack?
- Live IstanBLOG: Croatia vs. Slovenia in a Group B grudge match.
- Bostjan Nachbar talks about Slovenia’s great fans and Beno Udrih’s decision not to play.
Monthly Adventures
Your Opinion Matters.
YouTube.com/EuroleagueAdventures
Follow, listen to, and watch ELA on the web.
Your Opinion Matters.
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great stuff. Gonna go back and listen to some of your other “rap ups.”
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Mmm..Serbia and Turkey reaching that far?? Don’t know about it plus Hedo has always underperformed with his national team..Also I do believe Argentina is s top 3 contender
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@DIO: I think Argentina’s great in big game situations, but catch them after 5 games in 6 days in the 1/8 Finals and a team with charisma like Croatia can topple them. That’s what I think will happen. The again, it only matters if the groups shake out like I expect them to. Thanks for your comment.
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I seriously doubt many things in your predictions including Turkey beating Greece. It is as simple as quality. There is a level or two difference between those two teams. What is it with such a HUGE underestimation of Greece. They are rank by FIBA 4th for the reason of solid performances year after year.
As per USA just eliminate Greece in the 1/4 finals….hmmmm, lets see about that!!!!
I see Spain and Argentina not as good as last year while Greece and Serbia are certainly stronger and it shows. Mark this email mate…
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Ricky Rubio No5!!!!! LOL
Turkoglu No8!!! hohoho
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@g.g: So you’re saying….too high? Too low? Enlighten me.
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GREAT comment on Jaka. <3 the guy. Respect due – u hit the nail right on!
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It’s about time I showed the man a little more respect. Works hard, knows his role, helps the youngsters. Embodies Captaincy.
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I’ll go with your script.
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Good stuff! I can’t wait to see this for some of the other games!
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Agreed. What he said.
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USA wants no part of Greece at a quarterfinal. I guarantee you of that.
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I would say way too high for them. Hedo is really overrated, and Rubio is hyped so much it’s ridiculous. I don’t think Rubio has ever even been considered as even being a good player in the Euroleague. It’s like he’s entirely created by the ACB, Spanish Basketball Federation, and NBA marketing machine.
So that they can make a lot of money in the Latino market. All this attention and praise and credit he gets sure the hell is not based on how he plays.
Also, Diamantidis is insanely overrated in that ranking. Spanoulis is also way too low.
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Can’t win with you, Eric. Diamantidis too high, Spanoulis too low.
And about Rubio, with all due respect, you cannot be serious. He’s never been considered as being a good player in the Euroleague? He’s 19 years old. 19. And this will be his fourth season of Euroleague plus one in between in the Eurocup. That year he was 17 and averaged 8 points, 5 assists and 2.5 steals in 20 minutes of action. This season he won the Rising Star unanimously and helped his team to a title.
Now I’m not going to use the popular “obviously you’ve never seen _____ play” comment that’s so often thrown at me, but I do encourage you to pay close attention during his extended minutes in FIBA this summer.
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You also said this though about us “not wanting any part of Greece”:
Because the way Greece is playign right now, if they go 100% in that game the US is going to suffer its worst defeat in history and they are going to get embarrassed on ESPN.
Didn’t exactly work that way. Now I know it’s because they didn’t want to win, etc., etc. But were they trying to let China take them to the wire today also? Eventually you’ve got to say ‘this is my team, win or lose’ without throwing out all these excuses. Sure if Kevin Durant decides to go 0-20 we might lose. But that’s part of basketball. You either play well or you don’t, and by choosing not to compete you pull yourself out of contention for my respect.
And @g.g: …and I have them ranked 4th in my most recent power rankings. And are we really bringing in the FIBA rankings argument? That list is nice to have but an utter waste of time. ‘Year after year’ means nothing if the talent is rolling over every two years. Why is it so crazy to think that one of the perennially good teams will have a rough tournament? Greece simply does not match up well with the US. Period. As much as they run the scores up on weaker teams, they can’t play the pace of the US. ANd as for the loss to Turkey, that’s simply a hometown boost at work.
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@ Freaknick, I think you re right about greece, for the wrong reasons. They played China today, and without Sofo and Fotsis, China was able to keep the game close by playing the Zone for 40 minutes. The Greeks lack shooters from the perimeter, and coach JK decided he needs an array of forwards more than the only pure shooter he had on the roster ( Vasiliades ). The Chinese were daring every greek guard to shoot, even Diamantidis, who is the most consistent shooter and usually drains open threes easily. He was 3/13 today. Greece shot 40 3pointers @ 33%. Most of the shots were wide open, and still missed. They beat China, but they ll loose to a better team with that kind of performance. Greece needs to improve, fast. They need to be a top level defensive team, forcing turnovers and getting on the break for easy buckets, while also establishing an inside game outside Bouroussis ( who is a really skilled big man, but as you ve noted, he s slow. he also hasnt developed his postgame nearly enough to be a reliable option down the block). Sofo will help with that, but if the guards can’t stretch the floor, I don’t see Greece beating the good teams. Turkey isn’t one of them, though
Their guard play just isn’t on par, and while they are way better at the forward position ( Hedo + Ilyasova , while greece lacks a good small forward ), the greeks have good defensive 4s than can match up well with both of them, and keep em from scoring big numbers. Turkey will probably get more out of ilyasova, who will be tougher to contain due to his superior athleticism. Still, with Greece’s big men returning for that game, I can’t see how Asik can stay out of foul trouble ( or well, home court advantage!) , and the rest of Turkey’s big men can’t handle the greek front line down low.
So yeah, Greece won’t beat the US, but I can’t seem them meeting at the quarterfinals.
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Why does margin of victory matter? Do they use that to rank teams with the same win/loss record?
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pads not through sweating.
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Someone already put your song on youtube, you should claim it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRNf9rxaKf4
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@krle: Really? Damn. It would’ve been up already on ELA’s YouTube page but—get this—YouTube is blocked in Turkey.
Is there any chance you could comment on the video that it’s property of Euroleague Adventures? I’m powerless until September 13. Thanks brother. Is it getting many views?
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It’s uploaded 4 days ago and has 806 views. I can make a comment but it’s a 19 year old and he won’t take the warning seriously nor he will remove the video, you can send an e-mail to youtube and claim your copyright, there is a form which should be used and can be acessed only via youtube, but if you don’t want to use this form (you can’t at the moment) you can send an e-mail here: copyright@youtube.com
but it has to be like this:
Copyright Infringement Notification
To file a copyright infringement notification with us, you will need to send a written communication that includes substantially the following (please consult your legal counsel or see Section 512(c)(3) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act to confirm these requirements):
1. A physical or electronic signature of a person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.
2. Identification of the copyrighted work claimed to have been infringed, or, if multiple copyrighted works at a single online site are covered by a single notification, a representative list of such works at that site.
3. Identification of the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity and that is to be removed or access to which is to be disabled, and information reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to locate the material. Providing URLs in the body of an email is the best way to help us locate content quickly.
4. Information reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to contact the complaining party, such as an address, telephone number, and, if available, an electronic mail address at which the complaining party may be contacted.
5. A statement that the complaining party has a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.
6. A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.
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Your commentary is spot-on. None of these players are concerned with politics. Most basketball fans in the US think very fondly of Iran. We’ve seen their national team tour in the US, play against college teams, and play in off-season pro leagues. They are a good bunch of guys. If politicians and media personalities want to pretend this that this was some kind of a meeting between two enemy countries, they are dead wrong. It was a good basketball game. Iran played well and earned the respect of many US players. The US played well and earned the respect of many Iranian players.
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@mvblair: Thanks for the comment. The Iranian fans were classy and passionate even when the deficit got out of hand. They’ve made quite an impression here, along with their team who’s played incredibly hard each night.
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Navarro too high for sure… ! I’d take Ilyasova over Turkoglu….
1. Scola, 2. Kleiza, 3. Splitter, 4. Fernandez, 5. Ilyasova, 6. Diamantidis, 7. Spanoulis, 8. Rubio, 9. Navarro 10. Teodosic
Also Slovenia, would have Lorbek in here if he had come to the tournament not Dragic. Bourousis is there because Rubio is there – potential… Teodosic can by sly, but he can play…
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If Greece tried to lose, i will stay with the last bit that it backfired. And it wasn’t either the only team or the only match in which this happened today. Moreover the offended Russian coach tried to lose too but failed, which makes things even more ridiculous with his statements in the end. Everyone knew that we had weakness against zone defense, which is also his team’s preferred way of playing, (with every other team before playing zone for 40 minutes against us) yet against us he didn’t use that for a single minute. More pissed for failing losing actually than anything else.
There are ethics and then there is hypocrisy…. Finally if Greeks are losers sooner rather than later it will show up. So i can’t exactly see what’s the problem. It is quite possible that the next match against Spain we are out…
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Shut the hell up with all this ridiculous Greek hatred. Let’s see how much crap you talk after Greece beats Spain.
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I am Greek, I have been following the national team for more than 20 years and I am ashamed of their performance last night. There is just no way around it. However I don’t think that last night’s travesty had anything to do with the Eurobasket game against France. If Nando de Colo had not hit an impossible shot at the buzzer Greece would have won that game, regardless of their play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejjor_ab3Ec
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Well said,”Intentionally losing a game is wrong,…”.I wouldn’t like to defend their choice to apply “strategy” in advancing to the later stages of the championship. Why would people/media though single out Greece and talk trash about Greek basketball, intentionally ignoring that more teams have done the same (France, and why not even Spain)? It seems to me that there is some depressed hatred there. I wonder where that is derived from. I would find it more fair when people just were honest and straightforward with that.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upcka8U6h0s&feature=player_embedded
Just see with your own eyes if Greeks tried to lose against France last year.Of course you don’t care you filled your lines.
They scored a 3-p from 7m.Are you crazy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp4_qohHTuI&feature=related
What about these teams.They were tanking too??/?
And about Blat this lolguy was angry because he wanted to lose.
But he is your Messiah of ethics.As Kaslauskas said ”if he wanted to lose he could just tell us before”.
Tanjevic has entered the court and went to the Greek bench to insult players.Should he be there?No but you do not care , you are just using what he said to strengthen your point.Close the eyes to the attack to Bourousis.
And change your article’s title at least to Greek team no Greece-no need to offend one nation.Unless everyone can say USA and the art of doping and arrogance.
What about France???//??????
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@Everyone: I might have been unfair to exclude France from this as well, but I started writing the article before that game even started. And about the “Greece hatred,” this is the second consecutive year they’ve done the same thing, just as Tanjevic said.
And as for “see how much crap I talk when Grece beats Spain,” let me reiterate what I said toward the end: if Greece wants to be considered as an international power—which they had been coming into this tournament—they really need to leave this sort of thing behind. They’re better than that.
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that’s it with this blog for me, this is absolutely borderline.
Nick, you started caring about european basketball what? one year ago?
And now you say that greece is jeopardizing their newfound status in the upper echelon blablabla? Greece has been one of the better/best basketball teams for ages, actually longer than you probably know that anyone outside the usa plays basketball. They don’t jeopardize anything because some dude who has some half-knowledge about intl. ball talks some trash on his blog.
And this sort of “strategy” for better or worse, not on me to decide or you, is a cornerstone of international competitions in both soccer and basketball for ages. Everyone has been doing this for long, maybe you should lash out at Fiba and the format, like most serious writers do because the last people who like losing are actually the greeks, this is why this team was hell-bent on not getting spain and the usa without having won anything. We can deal with one of them, but both in line exhausts a team completely before even reaching the medal stages.
There is a difference between playing brave and being plain stupid and giving it away.
I propose you change your style, because unlike people like YArone Arbel and other really established european writers with deep knowledge of what’s going on you just don’t have the credibility to judge so harshly. Do this job for some years first and earn a readership for your professionalism before you delve into this kind of weak polarizing judgement just because it is an easy way to gain some attention from the average dumbass pseudo-brave reader who will yell at what is going on here but claps for NBA teams tanking whole seasons for a draft pick.
I used to read this stuff here, but seriously, it’s been too much with all this one-sidedness.
Ok we get it, you don’t like greece, you don’t like panathinaikos, you don’t like olympiacos and spain is great, serbia is great blablabla. I don’t see the big deal that makes you keep trying to wrap this up in objective basketball knowledge. Get over it, americano. You are losing readers and from an objective point of view you just appear to not be a credible source of opinions. Had you written this article about ALL the tanking teams and then turned it into a: “Fiba has to clean this up” thing, it would have been cool. But no, you just set out to bash greece, accuse them of tanking in a game they lost on a last second shot last year and just generally appear far too biased to be interesting.
Why do I even bother to write all this crap? Because I liked your mission to mix this blog a bit with BiE and Truehoop to get some more american attention to euro-ball, I even played in your stupid league. And with the occasional lapses like the ridiculous attempts at being funny with your raps I sometimnes found some interest in what you did. But man, seriously, there is only so much crap I will read before I stop trying to read this stuff and excusing you for not knowing this or that or the other thing.
I don’t need people to make me angry, I want to read people wh enjoy the different european schools of basketball and enjoy each one for its qualities and show understanding for traditions that have nothing to do with the gatorade highlight of the game or the Toyota dunk of the match or any of this commercialized crap you are used to. Just be a better writer, you can do it.
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@Everyone: I’ve made the appropriate changes based on your comments and what I feel to be the truth. As I wrote, I was writing this before the France game had even started, so apologies. Plus, the whole time leading up to this tournament everyone was fine with saying “if we don’t lose intentionally then…” or “we’ll win by ___ if we want to…,” so why is everyone getting so defensive now?
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@Teo: You’re right: my international basketball knowledge is not where it needs to be, and I’m still new to this. But that’s part of what this site is: international basketball through new, American eyes. I write to learn more than I write to inform. I love the comments because—no matter how scathing they might be—I always learn something from them. I’m always forced to consider something I hadn’t before and I always try to respond individually to each one so that we can get a productive discourse going. And THIS IS A BLOG still; I’ve never claimed to be objective. If people want objective points of view they’ll go to Yahoo, they’ll go to ESPN, they’ll go the BBC or some other more reliable, resourceful organization with far more manpower and money to be everywhere at once. I’m not going to compete with them, so I simply watch, react, and write. And as for me hating Greek teams like you said, that’s just completely off base. I picked Olympiacos to win it this year and Panathinaikos the year before, so let’s keep that straight. I think Spain is better than Greece this year but that doesn’t make me anti-Greek. That’s the problem when taking sides because it’s not like pitting myself against one team or even one city like I’d do in America; it comes off as my dislike for an entire nation. That is not at all the case. The best part of doing this for me is the opportunity to see the world and learn more about the cultures, something which I—and Americans in general—generally lack. But if you feel like it’s a waste of time to read in the future, then that’s your call.
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@Jorje: And that is a very good point about the zone approach, or lack thereof. Also, Greece outscored Russia in the fourth quarter, so I guess there’s that as well.
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First of all I should note that for me losing a game intentionally is not bad. There is a system and a setup of the tournament that “allows” teams to choose. SInce FIBA is stupid enough to announce the structure of the tournament beforehand it is OBVIOUS that teams will look up for their interest. The fact that all teams that could benefit from a loss tried to lose: Greece , Russia (everyone seems to have discovered Greek team’s problem which is zone defence besides russians!!) and France, supports the fact that the problem is systemic. The most reasonable thing to do is to choose if you are given the chance!!!
now lets focus to the article. Without wanting to insult you (i dont even know who you are) it seems that you know nothing about intl basket or you just dont like Greece, which is perfectly fine as long as you clarify it. Greece is not a beggining team in Europe nor its club teams. Greece is one of the most succesful national teams worldwide, and its club teams are the most succesful in Europe. The fact that from the aforementioned 3 teams you put only Greece in the title (probably you could not think far enough to realise that Blatt was so pissed that he won to make it such a big deal) shows a probable empathy towards greece. Anyhow as you said quite correctly above this is a blog stating your opinion but now we realise your blog is biased.
P.S. check out how big is “tanking” in NBA not only for playoffs but even for draft selection and then come critise.
Cheers
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@yiannis: Of course my blog is biased. Not against Greece, not against any country, but against concepts that I feel have no place in the highest levels of sport. I do know a thing or two about international basketball and losing intentionally is never something I will condone. I think it strikes at the heart of competition. Tanking for the playoffs is no longer an issue in the NBA because the NBA did away with the Divisional Winners getting the top seeds; now it’s solely based on record. And tanking for draft position happens in the NFL, but not necessarily in the NBA anymore. The team with the worst record rarely ever gets the top pick since the draft lottery has been implemented. And it’s less tanking and more playing your younger guys and resting your stars to protect your investment and develop your youth, similar to what Germany did yesterday giving Tibor Pleiss such big minutes.
I agree that the problem is largely an issue with the system. It should be a fixed side bracket, A vs. D, B vs. C, etc. Thanks for your comment.
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What about Spain losing to France? Or wasn’t that intentional?
I don’t like my team fixing its fixtures but if it’s our only claim for some more fairness I can understand and accept it.
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Oh, and by the way, this version of the Greek NT does not represent me at the slightest anymore. (Tsartsaris, Diamantidis, Fotsis, etc.. Maybe just Kazlauskas, Sfairopoulos and Bourousis) Just saying though..
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Hedo Turkoglu, TURKEY not Hedo Turkoglu, Spain
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Gecevičius, oh and Gecevičius too!
The best 3point shooter on the team, and no damned triples! 3 or 4 triples from him per game would be a huuuge help to the team in hard moments. We’re probably the only team left who can’t hit the threes reliably. The only thing that has been backing our asses up to the day is a tremendous defence. And that’s hard! 
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About Greece’s national team being a new power……….
Back in the late 80s Greece had one of the best national teams in the world. Possibly even the best. Greece beat both Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union in consecutive tournaments, something the United States didn’t do.
Greece also beat the Soviet Union in back to back tournaments. Again, something the United States didn’t do.
In fact, the United States switched to NBA players because they could no longer beat teams like the Soviet Union anymore at the Olympics. Those Soviet teams from that era with players like Arvydas Sabonis, Rimas Kurtinatis, Tiit Sokk, Alexander Volkov, Sarunas Marciulionis, Vladimir Tkachenko, Valdis Valters. A collection of some of the best European players of all time and with one of the all time great coaches in Alexander Gomelksy. In fact, the Soviet team that beat the US in 1988 and won the gold at the Olympics didn’t even have all of their best players.
For the NBA only oriented fans, 3 of those Soviet players played in the NBA and were successful players in the NBA. Volkov was a starter/regular rotation player, Sabonis was considered one of the best centers in the NBA, and Marciulionis was thought by many to be the best 6th man in the NBA. And all of those players I mentioned probably could have also played in the NBA. For example, most thought Kurtinatis was a better player than Volkov was.
And that Sabonis from that time, was better than the Sabonis that played in the NBA. The Sabonis that played in the NBA was even like a shell of the player that faced Greece in those days.
Well, just for the heads up, back in those days Greece was probably an even better team than the Soviet Union was. They beat them in the EuroBasket in both 1987 and 1989. The same Soviet team that beat the United States and won the 1988 Olympics, as I said, when not even all of their best players were playing. And even though the US was using college players then, look at some of those US players on that 1988 Olympic team:
Mitch Richmond
Charles Smith (Celtics, Wolves)
Bimbo Coles
Hersey Hawkins
Jeff Grayer
Charles Smith (Clippers, Knicks, Spurs)
Willy Anderson
Stacey Augmon
Dan Majerle
Danny Manning
David Robinson
Not exactly a scrub team. All 12 of them played in the NBA, and only one of them (Charles Smith – Celtics, Wolves) wasn’t a regular rotation player. Yeah, that US team finished third in the 1988 Olympics behind the Soviet and Yugoslav teams. The same Soviet and Yugoslav teams that Greece beat in the EuroBasket in the same era (1987-1989).
Greece beat the legendary Yugoslavia at the EuroBasket in 1987. That Yugoslav team had players like Drazen Petrovich, Toni Kukoc, Vlade Divac, Dino Radja, Zarko Paspalj, Stojan Vrankovic, and Sasha Dordevic, and was coached by the legendary Kresimir Cosic. That’s a team that had SEVEN NBA players on it. Some of them, considered amongst the best Europeans to ever play in the NBA.
Guys like Drazen Petrovich, Toni Kukoc, Vlade Divac, and Dino Radja. They were all considered to be very good NBA players. The NBA and USA Basketball even admitted that it was these teams of Yugoslavia and that Soviet team that caused them to start sending the NBA players to the national team competitions.
Once again, Greece beat these teams in the EuroBasket back in the 80s. For Greece back then, Panagiotis Fasoulas was considered to be one of the best European big men in that era. Fanis Christodoulou was considered to be one of the best combo forwards Europe has ever seen.
Panagiotis Giannakis was considered to be one of the best point guards to ever play in Europe. Nick Galis is considered by many to be THE greatest European basketball player that ever lived. Better than Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Drazen Petrovich, Arvydas Sabonis. Many, many of the all time experts, legendary players, and best coaches of European basketball name Galis as the best European player ever.
So Greece is not a new basketball power. It has actually been one of the world’s biggest powers in basketball since the 80s. With the lone exception being the 1999-2001 era. Other than that 2 year period, Greece has been a major power in basketball for more than 2 decades. They are hardly a new basketball power at all.
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