By: Freaknick/@euro_adventures
You shouldn’t trust this list. You shouldn’t place bets on account of what I say in this list. In all honesty, you should probably just click elsewhere to preserve the clarity and conviction of your own opinions. But here’s one thing I know: you will read this list, because that is the natural human reaction to lists. I could offer up 1,000 words on Australia’s ability to cope this summer without Andrew Bogut and you wouldn’t blink. Why? Because it’s an abstraction, and we as humans don’t deal too well with those. Now say I place the Boomers on a numbered list, ranking them immediately above and immediately below two other teams. Now I’ve got your attention. You’re now free to glance up and down, skim the words and then move along to Tweet your heart out, update your Facebook status or indulge in some other bitesized internet candy.
Hence, descriptions are second class citizens here today and you have the power to scroll, survey and then voice your displeasure at the bottom. Did I slight your team? If you’re Greek or Argentian then probably, so fire away. And since your list addiction has now been uncovered, hop on over to BallinEurope’s version of FIBA Power Rankings to compare notes and decide which of us is more insane. Or just look at FIBA’S official rankings which are…interesting:
1. United States: Light on ego, heavy on talent. People seem to mixing the two up these days. LeBron can stay his ass in South Beach, for all I care. Kevin Durant is everyone’s new favorite player anyways.
2. Spain: Spain’s 15 is now down to 14 with the recent snippage of Pablo Aguilar—who should crack this roster in time for London, if not Lithuania’s EB11—leaving two cuts remaining. Forget Pau’s absence. Spain will be fine down low with his brother Marc for offense, Fran Vazquez for (better) defense, and Felipe Reyes for some awkwardly effective Felipe Reyes-ness. Sergio Scariolo’s largest obstacle is the presumed “lock” status given to Jorge Garbajosa every year. If either Carlos Suarez or Fernando San Emeterio gets left off to make room for Garbage-josa I’ll be writing very strongly-worded, Google-translated letters to…well, to someone. So there.
3. Brazil: Pau’s gone for Spain and America’s frontline is no Russell-Chamberlain, so I’m putting Brazil here because they’ll have the most efficient set of bigs in Turkey this summer. Dunks, lay-ups and offensive rebounding don’t go into slumps, which bodes well for Nene, Tiago and Varejao in a 40-minute ballgame. Plus, it’s time for Marcelo Huertas’ close-up.
4. Serbia: Everyone still hung up on their 85-63 Eurobasket destruction at the hands of Spain seem to have forgotten their meeting on day one. It’s not like Milos Teodosic or Novica Velickovic have gotten any worse. Or Nenad Krstic, or Milan Macvan, or…
5. Turkey: Being the home team helps, but they’d be top five even if this thing were played on the moon. They’d actually have the edge because Oguz Savas would be the only player still anchored to the ground. But yeah, even the casual NBA fan will know the name Ersan Ilyasova when this thing wraps up.
6. Argentina: Perennially mentioned among the elite, and with good reason. I just see five teams that are better this year. Sue me. Actually don’t though, ’cause ELA’s funding has dried out ever since Lindsay Lohan went to jail. Say what you want, but she sure do love her some international hoops.
7. Greece: Sofo and Bourousis play well off each other down low. Spanoulis scores, Diamantidis defends and the backcourt is set. But they can’t keep entering tournaments without a single wing worth a damn. Seventh best ain’t bad, but try telling that to the Greeks who’ll be aiming their roadflares in my direction.
10. Australia: They won the battle with Serbia for Aleks Maric’s services. Now it appears it may have been a battle over an empty roster spot. No matter; Matt Nielsen, David Andersen, Andrew Ogilvy and Nathan Jawai should make life pretty easy on Patty Mills, one of ELA’s favorite guards in this tournament the world.
11. Lithuania: Still think they should’ve given Motiejunas a chance to run with the big guns, but at least this shows a commitment to winning and not development. Besides, I’m excited to see which haircolor former NBA superstar Martynas Andriuskevicius goes with on the red carpet.
12. France: If Tony Parker is healthy and Joakim Noah’s not shopping for bongs, they’re right up there with Spain and USA.
13. Canada: Nash is too easily forgiven for not being a part of this team. Andy Rautins will not be so kind to defenders who refuse to put a hand in his face. Wet.
14. Puerto Rico: Breakout alert: A.D. Vasallo. Imagine the looks he’ll get with JJ Barea and Arroyo gettin’ jiggy up top.
15. Croatia: This the one team that shoot up this list if they catch their stride. Marko Tomas and Bojan Bogdanovic are easily two of my favorite Euroleaguers (ELA’s free agent rankings should be solid evidence of my Markomania). Ante Tomic needs to come back healthy.
16. Germany: Watch this team play and then multiply its output by 1.5. That’s what you’ll get in Eurobasket next season once Elias Harris, Tibor Pleiss and Robin Benzing have had a summer to get to know one another. Now take that top-5 quality team and add Dirk Nowitzki. Final step: pray that Lucca Steiger turns into an elite guard by the time London 2012 rolls around. Now add water, stir and refrigerate until you feel that Olympic medal around your neck.
17. China: Hate to break it to everyone: China just isn’t that good. Yi Jianlian will put up some of the best stats in this tournament because they’re not going scoreless for 40 minutes and let’s be honest, China isn’t oozing with talent outside of Yi. Wang Zhizhi was a cool video game player back in 2004 but that’s really as close to a positive as I can find at the moment. Turkey, Russia, Greece and leave Ankara happy. China does not, because Puerto Rico will use them like Swiffer Wetjets (you know, wipe the floor…).
18. New Zealand: Brace yourselves for the season premiere of ‘The Kirk Penney Show’ starring Kirk Penney, with special guest appearances from Sean Marks and a bunch of other white guys who are marginally gifted athletes. Spoiler alert: Lithuania beats them in the first episode. Tragic.
19. Iran: If only Obama and Ahmadinijad could get along like me and my good pal Hamed Haddadi…
20. Cote d’Ivoire: The Coast with the Most (Ivory) also has five players from the French League, so the competition shouldn’t stun them entirely. Allez Les Éléphants!
21. Angola: Once a hobby of mine, Fantasy Angolan Basketball has made its way down my list ever since Sudoku arrived on the scene.
22. Jordan: Breaking news: Due to a strange loophole in FIBA regulations, the nation of Jordan has been given the go-ahead on a piece of legislation allowing Michael Jordan—for whom the basketball team is named—to suit up and play for them this summer, despite his previous appearances with the USA National Team. “I’m very honored,” said Jordan of Jordan’s decision to include Jordan on their preliminary roster. “However,” he added,”I’ll have to decline because of how bad they suck at basketball.” Head Coach Mario Palma could not be reached for comment.
23. Lebanon: I think the tree on their flag is very cool. Very ‘green’ of them, ahead of the times.
24. Tunisia: Oh buddy. How do I write multiple sentences about Tunisian basketball? It’ll be tough, that’s for sure. Maybe I could….no, that won’t work. How about I…that’s no good, either. I’ve got it! I’ll stall by writing a bunch of words that have nothing at all to do with Tunisian basketball! It’s foolproof.
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Oooooooh, wait ’til the Lithuanians and Greeks get a load of this one. BallinEurope.com power rankings have Lithuania at #11 and they’re bitching up a storm there. Plus, i’ve got Russia high up under the same pretext as you (Khryapa and lots of awesome D) and they’re hating on me for that, too. Finally, the Greeks are convinced they’re at least #2 (how can you have them that low…?)
Cheers,
Os.
Of course Greece is convinced they’re at least #2, and why shouldn’t they be? Spain, Greece, Argentina and the US will all be sure that they’re the best thing Turkey’s got going…until one or more of them wakes up without a medal. I’ve never been a big fan of judging on past performances since FIBA means not only huge turnover in talent but also years between competitions. Judging on a blank slate here.
As for Lithuania, they’re ranked directly ahead of Group D-ers France and Canada, so relatively speaking they should feel A-OK. Let the ‘ship fall where it may…
Hey! I think you missed Slovenia, and also: Croatia behind Canada and Puerto Rico?
Sorry to say but Garbajosa is most likely going to make the squad. I don’t think it’s so bad, he’s one of the leaders (not on the court, but outside he’s a pretty important player). Mumbru is the one who shouldn’t be in Turkey, and leave his spot for Suárez, but I don’t think that’s gonna happen. Also, I think Spain should be favourite number one even without Pau, but we are not going to agree on that, are we?
I also think they should have taken Motiejunas, by the way.
I can’t bear to see Croatia so low in the ranking. Come on, they have a really good team, specially now that Tomas, Bogdanovic and Tomic are on board. They were missing a good SF in the Eurobasket and now they have two, and Ante has really improved his game. For me they are Top 10.
And Lithuania number 11 with that squad… no comment
LOL, Greece at 7th with Turkey and Brazil of course ranking higher!!!!!!!
Hmmm when it was the last time Turkey finished ahead of Greece? I dont really remember, maybe never! or what about Brazil. Straight to the medals ho ho ho ho good one. Are you talking about football? ho ho ho
7th ho ho ho ho, are you drunk mate?
LMFAO at Greece 7th. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
This is awesome. I’m LOVING all the comments (even if everyone disagrees with me). Let’s address it one at a time:
@Arwyta and @Virginia: I agree with you that Croatia appears pretty low, and I mentioned how much I love Bojan/Marko. The big question for me is inside right now and if Tomic is healthy they could be a top 8 squad. And about Garbajosa, I sure do hope Suarez makes this team. If it’s Mumbru that has to sit, that’s fine too.
@Panos and @Georgio: I was hoping/expecting to see some angry responses from the Greeks. That’s why I love you; some of the most passionate fans in the world. As for their ranking, you’re right: history says they’re better than this, but this isn’t about history. It’s about how they play for a two week stretch in August/September. Maybe Panos or Georgio can play SF for Hellas?
This is fun everybody. Don’t stop now…
You obviously have a very limited knowledge about European basketball and players. No wing players for Greece?
Dimitris Diamantidis
Kostas Vasileiadis
Stratos Perperoglou
Kostas Kaimakoglou
Yeah OK no “decent wing players” for Greece…………You are either extremely lacking in European basketball knowledge or you are just trying to stir up hits for your website.
Typical “american-blend” article. A team that has no NBAers does not have a chance right??? You have to be kidding just by placing Brazil at #2! With the only argument being that they have a front-line that plays in the NBA! Oh my…was that a bad idea…
Greece should be found at #3. The rest seems fine, appart from USA in #1! Seriously, you can’t be placing greece 7th (still can’t realise the foolishness…) for not having a world-class wingman and give away #1 to a team that has no center!!!
But as said above…american-blended article, so this is expected (but not justified)
@Mario: I keep looking for the part where I said Greece had “no NBAers” but I’m not finding it. Look, I realize Spanoulis and Sofo are more than talented enough for the NBA and Bourousis is a tougher fit but could certainly join the rotation for a good 12-1 teams in the league. This site is called ‘Euroleague Adventures’ and I certainly recognize the merit of throwing out a line-up nearly FULL of ELers who also play in one of the most competitive domestic leagues going (the Greek League).
@Panos: Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated, but Dimitris Diamantidis is not what I think of as a “wing” player. A top 2/3 perimeter defender in the world even at his age? Absolutely yes. One of the most efficient offensive players in the Euroleague? Maybe the most. But do you really think Perperoglou and Kaimakoglou is a solid 1/2? Come on now. Stratos has been the single offensive weakness on Panathinaikos for two years despite my/everyone else’s hopes that his athleticism would allow him to develop some O-skills.
And as for me putting USA #1 simply because I’m American…well…you’re probably right. I’ve never claimed to be objective.
Hmm… I have some critique as well. First of all, do you honestly believe that Brazil should be ranked nr. 3 just because of their big men? They’ll sure be a big threat, but they can’t stand alone without good PG’s and SG’s. And they’ll obviously fall against European’s standart pick n’ roll… Russia and Australia are more powerful than Lithuania. Are you kidding? Is this based on the “star power” (which usually means something only to Americans, because they heard players from NBA and just a few from Euroleague…)? Come on… Javtokas>>>>>Mozgov. Really. And obviously Khryapa can’t beat all the opponents team only by himself. And Russians also don’t have any at least reasonable PG’s. And I can’t remember any game when Australia has beaten Lithuania. Because they haven’t beaten Lithuania.
Anyway, it’s better to be an underdog than a favourite. And by the way, Brasil won’t make even Top 8. I can guarantee you that… So as Australia. So as Russia.
@Fobas: I’ll put my faith in a backcourt of Huertas and Barbosa any day. And of course I realize Javtokas>Mozgov…did I ever say anything to the contrary? Mozgov is receiving the cult hero status on this site, hence the love. And as usual, I didn’t have room to list off Russia’s entire team but that doesn’t mean I think Khryapa can beat everyone by himself. JR Holden not a reasonable PG? Hmm. Ok.
But I say again: I do not care about the past. Anything that has happened, hasn’t happened, might’ve happened, could’ve happened…whatever. It’s in the past and these are new teams with new talent. Also, I’m not objective at all and will definitely be rooting for Lithuania to beat everyone outside the US, so I’m on your side Fobas. Thanks for the comment man.
Your attempt at trolling the Greeks is so obvious that even they won’t angrily respond with knee-jerk diatribes. I stopped reading after you placed Brazil at #3. That choice alone makes your list a joke.
I think brasil is the big favourites to win the trophy.Greeks are much worse,they haven’t players in the nba, something that for ignorants like you is the best criteria for a team to be rank at a good position
Greece made it to the 2006 final without any NBA players. Just because a national team is full of players from the circus they call a basketball league in America, doesn’t guarantee they will do well in the World Championships and that has been proven time and again. In short, Brazil is an okay team, but nowhere near #3 in the world.
@Everyone: Is it so outrageous that Greece might have a bad performance this summer? It’s single elimination after group play. Just think about that. I’m not ‘trolling’ anybody, but somebody’s going to get pissed no matter what the list looks like. Just happens to be Greece this time around and like I said, that’s one of the world’s most passionate fanbases. So props to everyone for defending your nation. That’s what makes international competition great. Your comments have been fun to read.
Just for your info Freaknick; In a tournament game tonight the rank”7″ Greece beat the ground out the feet of rank”8″ Russia: 101-64!!!!!!
Any reply pl?
For the record, this is how I would rank
1. Spain: Even without Pau, Spain has the quality and experience on the international stage to win the trophy again.
2. USA: Naturally the US has enough talent to fill up ten competitive teams. Thing is, the NBA is all about individual skills, circus shots and windmill dunks. If coach K can’t get those 12 showoffs (whoever they may be) to play as a team, then they will be vulnerable against the other elite teams.
3. Greece: Fast breaks and outside shots are no longer a weakness in this team. Calathes runs the team with confidence and precision, while veterans like Diamantidis and Spanoulis know when to push the brakes. Still holding on to their trademark defense, Greece will be very tough to beat.
4. Turkey: Turkey has the talent, the experience and the home crowd to make it far in the tournament. They can match up well inside and out with any team.
Australia, Serbia, Brazil and France are teams that can make the quarters and from there, who knows?
@Georgio and @StupidFlanders: First of all, thanks for sticking around to back your claims. It’s a lot more productive to go back and forth rather than hit-and-run. Congrats on the Russian triumph, which is exactly why Russia’s ranked one spot lower of course. Each place on the list is worth about a 37-point deficit, so I expect Greece to beat New Zealand by a mere 407 points (obviously). And as for Ned’s rankings, I’d at least advise you to get to know of the “showoffs” a little. This is without question the most ego-free team we’ve had since pros were allowed to play. “Light on ego, heavy on talent” is how I started these rankings, and it’s because Kevin Durant, Kevin Love and Chauncey Billups are all substance. I may be American, but a team of Kobe, LeBron, Wade and Bosh would’ve bored me to tears, win or lose. No room for surprise, no chance for a new star to emerge, no shot of changing the world’s perception of American ballers. Other than that, your rankings are your own and as you said:
“…from there, who knows?” <<
To be honest I am a bit worry as well how far this US team can reach. Its not the talent or ability, just the lack of one or two experienced leaders that would take over and guide the rest of the team through certain difficult times that would have to face.
As you said a new leader may be born as leaders always born on stormy times but that is far from certain. I am keeping my judgement for few weeks when the USA visit Athens on the 25th to play against Greece in a full house OAKA.
There is always a chance for a 2006 WC repeat as Greece and USA if both win their qualification groups (very possible) would meet at the semifinal….ho ho ho
I am amazed at Greece being ranked 7th. Also by the reasoning that Greece has no good wing players, has no good small forwards, that Kaimakoglou isn’t good, that Diamantidis can’t play the wing, that Perperoglou can’t score, that a 20 year old Papanikolaou is the best wing Greece has, etc.
Unbelievable.
Seriously………….
Maybe you should have a look:
Kostas Vasileiadis 6-7 SG-SF
He was voted the second best player in the Spanish ACB by the fans. Having watched the ACB all year I would say he was the fourth best player in the league this year after Splitter, San Emeterio, and Navarro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nuhg65ei00k
Kostas Kaimakoglou 6-8 PF-SF
The guy that finished 2nd in the Greek A1 in the MVP voting, while three guys that are now in the NBA (Linas Kleiza, Nikola Pekovic, Josh Childress) finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b1RVBw5yFQ
Dimitris Diamantidis 6-5 SF (point forward)-SG-PG
This player is something akin to a Shane Battier that can handle the ball and run an offense. Also, for him “not being a wing”…..he plays most of his minutes the last 3 years at Panathinaikos at SG or SF and usually his position in the Greek national team in the years 2006 and 2007 was SF. He’s basically a point forward, so how is he “not a wing”?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28W-LVGXJHk
Nikos Zisis 6-5 PG-SG
He is interchangeable at both guard positions on offense and defense. He has been a point guard in his club teams in the Euroleague (AEK, Benetton, CSKA, Siena) and a shooting guard in Greece’s national team (2004-2009). So he can also be considered a “wing”. Just so you know, he can also guard some small forwards. Like for example he has guarded Rudy Fernandez in the past against Spain where Rudy usually plays SF and done a very good job against him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElFDV8vi7Qc
Georgios Printezis 6-9 PF-SF
His best position is PF but he can also play SF. He is not as good on offense as a SF, but he can lock down just about any SF on defense. He did a nice job at times playing SF for Greece last summer at the EuroBasket. He’s better at the 4, but he can certainly man the 3 if needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPqLnsw28b0
Stratos Perperoglou 6-8 SF
You seem to be particularly critical of this player and seem to imply that he is some sort of huge weakness at SF and that he is a liability on offense. I really can see from such comments that you only know NBA, Olympics involving Team USA games, and some Spanish Euroleague clubs. Because you obviously have not seen many games of Perperoglou. This player is highly skilled on offense and is what we call “universal” in Europe. He has a complete skill set on offense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA3AsYSQeKQ
Calathes and Spanoulis should be the point guards of the team and do most of the ball handling, but they can also both play on the wing at SG if needed, and do a nice job there, although their talents are more expolied at point guard. But both of them can be used on the wing also. And Antonis Fotsis can also be used at small forward in certain situations also if needed.
I really have no idea where you get the idea that Greece has no wing players or no one that can handle the SF position, nor where you get the idea that Perperoglou (one of the best SFs in Europe) is such a “weakness”.
The only team that might have a better and more talented roster than Greece 1-12 is Spain. That is it. Greece’s roster is more talented than everyone else, including Team USA. Putting Greece as the 7th best team at the tournament is comical.
@Nikos: Damn. Quite the response, and I appreciate it. But let’s get a couple things straight:
I get it. According to everyone, I’m an ignorant American who (despite running a website devoted to European basketball) has never witnessed more than a few games and highlights of European teams. I only favor US-style of play and am seeing all of these names for the first time apparently. I have no idea what it means to be a “wing” and am silly for thinking Greece isn’t at the very least a top three team in this tournament. I understand all of that. Thank you.
Now as for a couple things you said:
Perperoglou: You call him “univesal” and I agree, but probably in a different way than you do. He is mediocre all-around on offense. The skillset you refer to is a very evenly distributed one yet he has no refined moves and he can rarely use his superior athleticism because playing off of him is OK; he won’t hurt you with his jumper (this is the issue with Childress’ game that bothered most Greeks I talked to). I’ve watched Perperoglou be an offensive non-factor for the last couple of seasons with Panathinaikos, so if we have to differ on opinion here then that’s fine.
Diamantidis: Am I a little unschooled on some of the players in this tournament? Yes, but DD isn’t one of them. Has he played the 3 before? Yes. Is he out of position when he does? Yes. His defense is never a question (ever) but his offensive efficiency shines through when he’s up against a smaller defender he can muscle past or even post up, which both set up his jumper which is wet. I love DD. But a SF? I don’t think so.
Papanikolaou: Did I say he was “the best”? I did not. I said a better fit, as he can provide spurts and a few good minutes here and there, a very important asset to have on any FIBA bench. He shouldn’t be left off this roster.
Zisis: You sure that’s not you? Same name and such a passionate response…Anyways, I like Nikos Zisis. Just because a team’s ranked 7th doesn’t mean that I think all of their players are garbage, even if I see a couple of issues at the wing. And for the record, we’re talking about SF here, so it’s great that he’s a combo guard but that’s not what I refer to. I think we’re both getting a little hung up on the vagueness of the “wing” word. Maybe I never should’ve used it to begin with.
Printezis: One of my favorite players in Europe. Olympiacos would’ve won a ‘ship if they hadn’t let him slip away. COming back from the injury the way he did last year still amazes me and any team on any continent would be glad to have him. But as you said, he’s only an SF on defense, and as I’ve mentioned I have no doubt about them as a defensive ballclub.
Kaimakoglou/Vasileiadis: I like Kaimakoglou but he’s solid to me and nothing more. The MVP voting is nice but there comes a point where I have to see if someone passes the eye test. To me, he doesn’t stick out as anything special. As for KV, I probably overlooked him more than I should have. I’m plenty familiar with his game having spent the past year in Spain and think he offers more of the lategame killer I’m looking for.
Calathes: He’s ready for a bigger role and I think he’ll get it. I even said that on a podcast I did with TalkBasket last week. Papaloukas’ absence is going to open some doors for him.
And as for being the first or second most talented team in the tournament, I think everyone’s quick to hate on me for mislabeling Greece yet I doubt many have taken the time to get to know the team that the USA is sending. They ain’t D-Leaguers.
I’ll be updating the rankings in a day or two…maybe Greece will be higher. But maybe not. Thanks for your detailed response though. I learned something.